“I want to tell you something, but I’m embarrassed. I don’t want you to think bad [sic] of me.”
Uh-oh. Nobody wants to hear those words during a date, especially on a sunny January afternoon in Paris. Things were going so well with Alex, whom I’d met three months earlier in Frankfurt, his hometown. We were talking history, politics, and travel while strolling along the Seine. Did he have to ruin everything with a confession?
“Last night I went out and…”
All the details about the previous evening’s nightclubbing adventure followed. Hours after he arrived at a disco whose name he couldn’t recall, a guy approached him at the bar.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
“My friend has been lusting after you all night,” he said, pointing to a young Haitian woman nearby.
I thought I knew where the story was heading. I once had a fling with a guy in Buenos Aires that began the same way. Alex’s twist: He and the girl ended up naked in his hotel room’s twin bed. She left at 6am, and a few hours later, he was making plans to meet me at noon under the Eiffel Tower.
“So are you telling me you’re bisexual?” I asked, hating myself for hoping it was just a drunken one-time experimental thing.
“Yes. I’m more into men right now, but I’m still attracted to women.”
I could have lived without the TMI hook-up tale, but knowing that was his way of coming out to me, I had to give him props for owning it. Although it’s no longer the community’s overlooked stepchild, the B in LGBTQ still doesn’t get enough acceptance and respect, even within our own ranks, even from some of us, like me, who have figured out what Aaron Carter apparently hasn’t.
Related: Aaron Carter says he isn’t actually bisexual, that whole coming out thing was “misconstrued”
Backstreet Boy Nick’s little brother recently made B a scarlet letter, as so many others have before him. After coming out as bi last year–“I definitely embrace my bisexuality,” he said on the LGBTQ&A podcast in December–he now claims it was misconstrued. He says he wants to have a family… so he’s actually straight!
Earth to Aaron: Bisexuality isn’t a flashy suit you can pull out of the closet when it suits your publicity machine, nor does it switch to straight because you want to be a daddy. Oh, and love, marriage, parenthood, and bisexuality are not mutually exclusive.
I knew all that, but I couldn’t calm my own Sturm und Drang over Alex’s confession. I told him it didn’t matter to me, but I lied. Although our date would still qualify as one of the best days I’ve ever had in Paris (full disclosure: I’m not a fan of the city), everything between us changed after he told me he’s bi.
“Look at that amazing church,” I said, fumbling for something to say for the first time that afternoon.
I wondered if he noticed the suddenly uncomfortable silences. Our easy, playful banter shifted to tentative and awkward. The B-word never came up again, but I couldn’t think about anything else.
No, I’m not the type who side-eyes bisexuality. I accept it in theory. I don’t see it as a layover on the way to straight (for women) or gay (for men), as I’ve heard some people describe it. The B in LGBTQ is as legitimate as any of the letters surrounding it.
But if I’m being completely honest, a certain green-eyed monster was controlling my innermost thoughts. I hated myself even more for being swayed by the stereotype that bisexual people are sluttier than the rest of us because they have more options.
I recently watched a 2017 The View interview with Younger star Nico Tortorella that took me back to that Saturday afternoon in Paris. The actor talked about being bisexual (he married his longtime lesbian partner on March 9) and made an interesting observation about how people react to it:
“I think the most flack I get – and other bisexual friends I have get – is actually from inside of the [gay] community and not from straight people.”
Related: Nico Tortorella gets the most flack from gay men
He deftly dodged panelist Sunny Hostin’s question about how his sexual duality affects his partners, but I assume both genders must have reservations. I would. With Alex, I did.
After his bi revelation, everyone we passed became competition: the sharp-dressed black man who looked like he’d stepped off the pages of L’Homme, the cute white guy who served us our late-afternoon burgers, the long cool woman in a black dress on the Metro – every woman on the Metro.
I’m a fairly jealous guy by nature, though none of my exes would know it. I hide it well. I put in extra effort with Alex that day. When he asked if he could see me again later in the evening and kissed me goodbye, I figured I’d succeeded.
I had to concede failure, though, for overreacting on the inside. I never consciously think of guys I date in terms of their sexual identity, so why did it define Alex for me? I must have dated bisexual men in the past, but until Alex, no-one had ever openly tagged himself as one. I’ve dated men with ex-girlfriends and even ex-wives, but the women were never literally yesterday’s news.
Alex’s attraction to women wasn’t ancient history, so I had to accept it in the present tense. Despite my misgivings, I was determined to try. We had our second date that evening, and I hope we’ll have a third one the next time we’re both in the same European city. I’m disappointed in myself for continuing to feel somewhat conflicted, but I’m glad I didn’t dismiss him.
I don’t know if I’ll ever be as comfortable with B as I am with G, but in this brave new LGBTQ world of sexual fluidity, maybe there’s still hope for me. Maybe there’s still hope for everyone who struggles with B. There’d better be, because without it, there is no LGBTQ.
Kangol
Does it make “us” uncomfortable, or are you talking about yourself, Jeremy Heligar? I have no issue with bi people. More power to them. That photo illustrating the topic is great, BTW. Who are these two guys? Maybe an article about them guys would be nice, rather than the same topics over and over.
ChrisK
I have no problem either but it sure seems like an aweful lot of them are into the Mind Games. Like I know a lot of guys that claim to be bisexual but haven’t had sex with a woman for years or ever. They just like the identity of it.
Jack Meoff
Chris K, yes exactly. So many guys out there adopting the label despite little to no sexual experience with woman. I think this is what’s making it harder for actual Bi people to be accepted.
Donston
“Bi” is simply supposed to mean ever having any type of attraction and/or romantic instints towards more than one gender. So, technically, who you actually have sex with has nothing to do with it. But if you go with its initial base definition then at least 70% of people would be technically “bi”.
Honestly, unless you’re looking to have persistent and concurrent sex and relationships with multiple genders it’s always gonna be a bit of an awkward identity and even then… I’ve had a decent amount of sexual experience with women and a couple of substantial relationships with them. Yet, it’s not an idenitity I emrbrace, because my majority passions, desires, comfort and romantic and sexual satisfaction lies with guys. And that has reflected my lifestyle for the past eight years. And I’m simply not interested in playing those types of sociological games.
So much of identity is often about how you wish to be perceived, which is partly why I semi support the “no labels” movement.
Kieru
I tend to assume it has more to do with ones own acceptance of their sexual orientation and how that is perceived by society, and far less to do with their bisexual partner.
A bisexual person can ‘pass’. All they have to do is date a person who is the opposite gender as them and presto! Like magic they will be perceived as just another heterosexual couple. No side-eye from strangers when you’re holding hands. No animosity. No one protesting their right to marry; their right to exist. So to that person who has some unresolved issues with their sexual orientation there is an obvious question: Why would a bisexual person ever stay with them when they could so easily be ‘normal’.
And based on that misperception they concoct all sorts of ways to self-sabatoge their relationship. Suddenly he’s going to be a serial cheater, or he’s not really into you, or the first pair of boobs he sees is going to spell the end of your relationship, etc, etc. All based on your own insecurity and nothing to do with his sexual orientation.
badger2305
Precisely. Bisexual people get stigmatized for being honest about who they are. They can be totally virtuous, and still their gay, lesbian or straight partners assume the worst.
tnguy222
Generally, I distrust bi guys. I find them less likely to be monogamous, and I have a hard time grappling with the reality that they sometimes want something that I literally cannot provide.
Generally, I am only attracted to ‘straight’/bi guys. I find them more likely to share similar interests in ‘manly’ activities that I enjoy. I also like their virginal, inexperienced mindset.
I have a hard time reconciling these two feelings. While my ‘conversion’ rate isn’t bad, I wonder why there are many like myself who aren’t as attracted to the G?
ChrisK
Since you said before that you get off on dominating and bullying I would assume that the virginal inexperienced guys go perfectly with you.
Donston
It ain’t that difficult to find gay-identifying men who are into “straight guy stuff”.
As far as not generally being into gay-identifying men, that could be self-resentment and internalized homophobia. It also could be about being turned on by hetero behavior if not women (which is not uncommon for gay men). It as well could be unsettled gender dis-morphia, and being with a non-gay identifying male allows you to feel more like a female.
The virginal, inexperienced thing makes it seem like you have a ephebophilia or hebephilia dominated orientation and/or you have some sharp megalomaniac and sadomascostic instincts.
Having said all this, you might wanna make an apointment with your local trusty shrink.
tnguy222
I appreciate your constructive and insightful responses. I will reflect on them.
Another explanation is I think millennial gay culture has ruined the dating pool. Many gays are vapid, pop culture obsessed, anti monogamy, and so broken by heterosexual society that they reject others quickly for minor variations from their desired type of friend or lover.
I am guilty too. While I reject pop culture, I date only a particular type, but I am open to friendships of all kinds.
Straight/bi guys are uncorrupted. He and I can live in a world which is burdened by neither heterosexual nor homosexual societal expectations.
Donston
Straight men can be and often are broken and shallow as well.
But yes, self-resentment, narcissism, homophobia, internalized homophobia, “confusion” or conflicting dimensions within orentation or sense of gender, self-destrucive instincts, a shallow ego, a very fragile ego, contending with past sexual abuse or assault, etc. are definite problems for a good percentage of gay/gay-leaning/queer men.
Beyond someone’s identity, it’s about finding someone who can authentically love and throughly you, can be genuinely satisfied with you and who you can genuinely satisfy.
Donston
The bi resentment or suspicion from a percentage of gay-identifying men seems to come from a variety of sources. Openly gay men are used to being ostracized and dismissed by general society while bi-identifying people (no matter their social discomfort or the disapproval they may receive from some) do not have to face those things if they live a mostly “straight lifestyle”. Also, there’s a fear that you’re not enough or that eventually your partner will leave you for someone of another gender or will simply grow frustrated with the “gay lifestyle”. Then there’s the stereotype of most bi-identifying men fitting into two categories: ones who only authentically date women and primarily use guys for sex, party-going pals and/or money, and the ones who are very gay-leaning men contending with internalized homophobia or at least a desperation to hold on to some hetero-normalcy. Those two stereotypes are still persistent for a reason. They’re not uncommon.
Considering most people, no matter their lifestyles or identities, are not completely and totally 100% conventionally straight or gay, inherent bisexuality really shouldn’t make anyone uncomfortable. It reflects the majority of the population. But I can understand why some are hesitant to genuinely date someone who is bi-identifying. I am married to a gay-identifying man. And I know even as a person with some bisexuality in their orientation that I would be uncomfortable being with someone who felt the need to identify as bi. I’ll take queer or pan or at least putting the gay-leaning in front of “bi”. Having some type of bisexuality or fluidity in your orientation is so common that it probably represents most people. But being with someone who identifies bi and feels the need to show “bi pride” is a whole different thing.
When it comes to dating the main questions shouldn’t be what is your identity or what are your attractions or who can enjoy sex with (not that those are problematic questions). To truly know someone, their nuances and their motivations you have to get insight into their passions, desires, instincts, long-term sexual and romantic satisfactions, how they see their future and whether or not they have self-comfort, self-knowledge and a stable ego.
badger2305
How biphobic.
Donston
I really don’t see how any of that is “biphobic”. It was a pretty fair and nuanced post. If looking at things in an honest and nuanced way upsets you that’s your problem. If you want to break down what you disagree with or what you percieve to be “biphobic”, cool. But the lame, dismissive responses serve no purpose.
Donston
Beyond anyone’s identity, I don’t see how wanting to be with someone who has you as their primary romantic and sexual preference is problematic or “biphobic”. This is the problem with conversing about orientation on the internet. Too often it becomes about self-identity, self-defending, placating, hating or throwing around cliches, and it’s not enough about real and nuanced conversation concerning orientation and identity.
tnguy222
@Donston that which you said was not ‘biphobic.’ Those who seek to foreclose discussion with adhominem attacks in the name of biphobia or racism often have no salient argument other than an emotional, visceral, and often incorrect understanding of the world.
Continue to sharpen your analytical skills and thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Donston
I understand that I can be too harsh or blunt. However, this is always a touchy topic and it’s one where you can easily offend people. So, I try to be as nuanced as possible. Orientation and sense of gender can be and often are very complex and are both on their separate spectrums. But it seems most people aren’t interested in having real conversations about that. Instead, it’s about identity and looking for affirmation.
Dwik27
I’m gay and have no problem with true bisexuality, as opposed to some people using the concept (usually when they are just coming out) to mask their true homosexuality. I think some people are hesitant to date a bisexual because the vast majority of people can only be their one gender – meaning, we will never be able to satisfy the bisexual’s attraction to the gender that we are not. Hence – insecurity from the get go.
chris33133
I’m not uncomfortable with bisexuality, having dated bisexual men. However, the article’s argument seems to be flawed in two ways. First, it IS very possible to reject a bi person as a potential sex partner, which seems to have been the core of the author’s reaction, without rejecting the bi person as a friend or even as a tour guide, which is what he seemed to be. We shift people from sexual partner over to “just friends” all of the time; this is just one of a gamut of reasons. Secondly, if one person (i.e., this author) over-reacts and rejects the possibility of friendship with bi people in general, that doesn’t mean there is no LGB-etc. It means that one person is getting carried away.
I’m amazed by how times I’ve seen people politicize their own and others’ individual quirks, tastes, and even fetishes and have been so worried about their reactions that, without knowing it, they actually hurt the other person. Let this old fart recommend people stop overthinking and overanalyzing their reactions. Accept the fact that your being uncomfortable is a valid reaction for you and that if it’s a sexual deal breaker, then so be it!
We old farts have fought for precisely the right to accept gay/homo/queer/faggoty ourselves with all of our own wrinkles and shortcomings. Many of us went through years of therapy to get to this point of self acceptance. The one thing that I’ve learned is that the more I accept about my own self, the better I can accept others as who they are without judgement.
This doesn’t mean I have to marry or date everyone about whom I’ve had issues. But real self-acceptance means that I’ve learned how not to be a total d****bag about these sorts of revelations and how to treat people with the dignity they deserve without the kind of internal dialogue that is at the center of this article. The guy is bi; period. And the author’s reaction is what it is; another period. And if the author doesn’t like Paris, then why in the world is he still there?
assiandude
I think that “comfort” concerning bisexuality is basically an issue of lack of understanding and poorly defined labels. What exactly does it mean when someone says that they are bi? Coming out as gay or heterosexual is not only about declaring a preference but also about stating that they don’t want to have sexual relations with the opposite gender. Coming out as bi, doesn’t really state actual preference but that they are willing to have sex with either. A bi person may have a clear preference but that doesn’t preclude either gender. When people come out as bi, it says less about their preference but lack of exclusion.
The suspicion towards bi people by their prospective partners may be based on some recognition that this person may rather have sex with a different gender. Straights are threatened when their partner discloses a history of gay sex as it may imply some “closeted homosexuality”. Gays have not had that concern. As gays become more relationship oriented, we tend to appraise partners with more scrutiny and characteristics that threaten this in the future. It’s less about sexual acts but more about long term sexual relations. It’s a sign that sexuality is less an issue that we now can imagine people who is willing to have easy gay sex, but truly prefers and wants a heterosexual relationship.
The bottom line is that we are living in a world of labels but the labels mean different things to different people but ones that predict behavior are easier to embrace. Bi does little to predict behavior so it is suspicious.
Etseq
Good point – I have never thought of it in terms of exclusion but that makes alot of sense.
BlackHoleBrain
No label predicts behavior. Labels tell you your starting point, however, and that in itself is predictive.
I identify as a white cis woman who is bisexual. I can work with whatever parts a prospective partner has. That’s all “bi” means.
Personally, I’m purely monogamous. So much so that after the woman I loved was murdered 24 years ago, I was unable to fall in love again.
But I have a friend, also a bisexual white cis woman, who is aromantic—she doesn’t fall in love, doesn’t want a relationship, and enjoys sex with as many different people as possible as frequently as she can get it.
We are opposite ends of a spectrum, this friend and I. There’s nothing wrong with that.
There is, however, something very wrong with making assumptions based on the “bisexual” label—including the assumption that the label doesn’t predict anything about us. It predicts you have a chance with us, and now it’s up to you to get to know us and see where things go.
That’s also true if you’re a gay man who wonders if he might have a future with a gay man you’ve started seeing. His sexual orientation means you have a chance with him. Now it’s up to you and him to get to know each other and see how things go. Just because he has the same sexual orientation as you, though, that doesn’t predict his behavior. You may not be his type. Maybe he’s so faithful he’s still in love with someone long dead, like me. Or he may enjoy sex but not relationship, like my friend. There is no knowing unless you take a chance on getting hurt.
A bi person might break your heart.
So might anyone else.
Labels have nothing to do with that.
JarodD
Bi sexuality doesnt make us uncomfortable, we just know that for every bisexual person theres like 10 homosexual people who say theyre bisexual because theyre still halfway in the closet. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.
BlackHoleBrain
No, it’s like we live in such a bigoted society that some of us are justifiably terrified of being known as “different.”
It’s also like that justifiable terror can make us afraid to come out even to ourselves.
Oh wait… It’s “like” that because that’s how it *is.*
Wow. We get marriage equality and we forget that in every other way we still aren’t equal at all. As a matter of fact, we even forget that the Trump administration has given medical professionals the right to refuse to treat us, if their religion says queer people are evil and deserve to die.
That’s very scary.
How about having some compassion for the LGBT+ people who are scared? They’re right to be afraid.
We’re asking cishets not to judge us. Shouldn’t we also not judge each other?
Have the same understanding for people who are afraid that you want from people in power!
Etseq
This coming from the guy who thinks he is masculine and defends dating preferences based for “straight acting” men but then complains about white men fetishizing him as hung and virile. After having read a few of his articles that follow the same cookie cutter template, I can’t be bothered to wade through his meandering prose.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-masc4masc-isnt-necessarily-self-hating-and-anti_us_5939f417e4b0b65670e56926
Cylest Brooks
Jaxton’s comments were deleted for violating Queerty’s comment policy.
BlackHoleBrain
I don’t envy you your job. The “mean-spirited” quotient here is heartbreakingly high.
BlackHoleBrain
What if they are angry, not because masculine men have life easier, but because so many people say being feminine is unacceptable? Like you just did.
By the way, being anti-feminine is misogynistic as well as hostile to men who aren’t just like you.
Donston
Too much of the “queer movement” has become “everyone is special, no one is unique” and about telling people how to think and who they should date (well, gay men constantly being told who to date. No one else has to deal with that). Let people date who they feel comfortable dating. No matter someone’s identities, if they have swag or good looks or money or a big dick or a nice ass, etc. they’re going to have options. I’ve had a guy turn me down because I admitted that I wasn’t completely 100% gay and had a previous relationship with a woman, and I had a couple guys turn me down because I admitted I was mostly into dudes and only wanted to be with a guy. And therefore, I didn’t live up to their hetero worship fantasies. It is what it is.
Obsession with self-identity, affirmation, proving your sense of self and telling people what to do is less interesting and less needed than legitimately open and honest conversation about the dimensions of orientation and sense of gender and “fluidty”. If more “proud bi guys” indulged that real conversation on a one-on-one level and publicly (instead of tending to play victim or having an obsession with proving their sense of self) then most of the issues would dissipate.
Donston
I will also say that even people who are 100% straight or gay are not going to be only attracted to the same type of person all the time. So, not wanting to date anyone with any type or extent of bisexuality in their orientation isn’t all that practical.
Heywood Jablowme
” (well, gay men constantly being told who to date. No one else has to deal with that).”
LOL. That’s pretty cynical, for you! But yeah.
DCguy
The article stated:
“”I recently watched a 2017 The View interview with Younger star Nico Tortorella that took me back to that Saturday afternoon in Paris. The actor talked about being bisexual (he married his longtime lesbian partner on March 9) and made an interesting observation about how people react to it:
“I think the most flack I get – and other bisexual friends I have get – is actually from inside of the [gay] community and not from straight people.” ”
—————-
And that is only the case because the majority of people they socialize with are lgbts and not straight people.
Additionally, why isn’t his wife referred to as “Bisexual” instead of “Lesbian” since they are married. Are we to infer that they do not sleep together?
DCguy
Nothing about bisexuality makes me uncomfortable. There is one thing that some people new to it, or new agey say that just smacks of ridiculousness though.
When you have somebody claim to be bisexual, because they “Don’t see somebody’s gender or appearance, just their soul, and that’s what they’re attracted to….”
But then they’re always with hot good looking people. That phrase would work a bit better if everybody they ended up with wasn’t hot
Donston
The problem with the “bi movement” is mostly on bi-identifying people and the “queer media” not gay-identifying people.
Too much of what we hear from too many “proudly bi” people (both in the media and in “real life”) when they explain themselves comes off contradictory, vague, self-hating, homophobic, pretentious or just ridiculous. And that just makes them come off duplicitous or crazy. It seems being straightfoward, clear, earnest and thorough is not typical, even for people who try to constantly push the “bi cause”. Also, the pushing of polygamy and, once again, constantly behaving like victims has also taken over the “bi movement”. That’s just not a good look. While real and open coversation is secondary cause at best.
I’m starting to appreciate these nonchalant, less identity focused outings. If you wish to give further detail keep it real and straightforward is all I say. I prefer this approach over taking on 40 identities that you halfway explain and then constantly looking for affirmation and/or constantly looking to prove your sense of self.
Heywood Jablowme
I’m totally cool with B’s (and I certainly don’t doubt the very existence of male B’s as some do), but I wouldn’t want to date a guy who identifies as B.
G’s are complicated enough. More than complicated enough!
As others here point out, identifying as B can mean a multitude of things anyway. That’s fine but I don’t particularly want to hear about it or deal with it.
Heywood Jablowme
Also, I think it’s weird that Jeremy feels so guilty about dumping some random Grindr trick for being bi when he’s spent the past several months roaming around Europe dumping other random Grindr tricks for much less profound reasons.
(I’m just assuming the exact means by which they “met three months earlier in Frankfurt,” but it’s a guess based on past writings!)
DariusL
The reason this dude was upset that his date was bi, is because he date let him know he slept with a woman the night before. Had he said a month or year ago, dude wouldn’t have cared. It wasn’t the bisexuality that bothered him, it was the competition.
Donston
I do kinda feel bad for guys who are close to 50/50 bi or pan sexually (almost equal attraction, arousal, passion, desire, sexual satisfaction) but are unashamedly homo-romantic. It can be very difficult to find a male partner that’s going to legit trust you and will take your relationship seriously. So, many of those types of dudes just end up primarily dating women or sleeping around with whoever the rest of their lives.
linniejr
First let me say to Jack Meoff (love the name,lmao) Amen to your comment ” So many guys out there adopting the label despite little to no sexual experience with woman. I think this is what’s making it harder for actual Bi people to be accepted.”
Next to the writer of this article, persons Id’ng as Bi don’t make me uncomfortable as much as they make me weary. What I mean by that, a man identifying as bi sexual (some,not all) still have the mindset of “I can have my cake and eat it to” which brings about a lot of trust issues. The first time I got involved with a bi man, I thought I had found something good, but then he was no different than the trade I had been with, he only wanted me when he wanted, but when I wasn’t available or he saw me with another man he got mad, even though there was nothing between the other guy and myself.
Bi sexuality doesn’t make me uncomfortable, it’s just the men who say they are.
But I’m glad you got this discussion going.